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H-17 in Russia

Started by Doug Johnson, September 10, 2014, 09:05:13 AM

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Doug Johnson

I just recieved a photo from Evgueny of H-800 #H-17 You may find the new landing gear interesting

H-17  built 06/84 as H-800SP (seaplane) originally N4104D (previously used on c/n 022) dereg export 12/85 CP-2063 Alas Andinas ltd (Ernesto Asbun) Cochabamba Bolivia sold 04/86, export reregistered N4104D upon return to US Don Love Aircraft sales (dealer) KS sold 09/86, Superior Gear Box (Richard Carr) MO sold 02/89, Alfred Nordgren OR accident the pilot reported that he elected to land on flat terrain that appeared to be solid enough to support the aircraft, but during the landing roll the wheels sank in mud and the aircraft nosed over @ king Salmon AK 6/89 Ag Rat'ler N4405S rudder/tail and empennage purchased by Al Nordgren for Bob Lien to repair H-17 12/89 sold 09/91, Ron Sutphin (Crowley Ranch) OR sold 04/93, T.J. Farms ltd (Tom Hammer) MN placed on PK-4000 amphib floats accident the pilot had flown approximately 2.3 hours after his initial departure with 45 gallons of fuel in the amphibious float equipped aircraft. His estimation of fuel consumption was 39 gallons per hour at takeoff power and 23 gallons at cruise. Several touch and go landings were performed during the flight. While in cruise a total loss of engine power occurred and a forced landing was made on a gravel road. During the landing, the float nose wheels dug into soft gravel and the aircraft flipped over. Post crash investigation revealed no engine anomalies, no evidence of fuel in the tanks, nor any indication of fuel spillage on the ground. The pilot stated he believed he exhausted his fuel supply @ Foley MN 5/94, rereg N800TH TJ Farms ltd (Tom Hammer) '97, Ron Sutphin (Crowley Ranch) OR sold 01/04, Gullwing Research llc (Mike Borer) ID sold 06/04, Terry Scott NV sold 01/07, Nordic GreatWestern Family ltd partnership (Partners: Joel, Yvonne, & David Cyr) TX sold 09/09, to Marina Bukhanova reg canceled aircraft exported to Finland where it was reassembled after sea shipment, then flown to Krasnoyarsk, Russia reg RA-1993G Accident ground loop on landing gear broke @ Krasnoyarsk 07/13 repaired with gear leg modification an additional strut was added

Doug





Doug

Doug Johnson

#1
 Ð•Ð²Ð³ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ð¹ Твороговa sent me a couple more more pics of gear leg strut modification on H-17

I would imagine the mod was done by Russian field approval.

Anyone know if the there is any reciprocity with Russian and American field approvals or any other countries

My own experience is that an airworthiness certificate becomes difficult to get when reintroduced to the US if any changes are noticed by the FAA.

Just look at the AN-2 thousands flying around the world and the only way to fly one in the US is experimental exhibition depending upon the restrictions placed on the airplane it can be nearly useless. although I know of one here in Nebraska owned by an FAA inspector that has almost no restrictions.

Regardless if it is labeled experimental exhibition it rules out any comercial use

Doug



Doug

Gordon Cragg

It really seems to me that this mod is a real question mark???when it comes to flying the H-700/800 I am not an expert, having only put 20.2 hours in H-700, H-10. however, this modification appears to me to be counter productive when it comes to landing gear operation. Since the association owns the STC to replace the fiberglass gear legs with the aluminum gear ones, we received a lot of information concerning how Clarence Brent accomplished FAA approval for the changeout.
He showed where the aluminum gear had, approximately, the same elasticity (spring) as the fiberglass. My point is that adding this "stiffener" makes me think the dynamics of the landing gear have been totally changed. Just my opinion.

RCarter

Legal or not, I do like the way it looks.  Gives the H-800 a much more aggressive look, along the lines of a Pilatus Porter.  Given the grief that some Canadian companies are having trying to get an FAA STC after already receiving a Canadian STC (example Wing-X and their c-170 wing extensions), I can't imagine a Russian field approval would ever be allowed back in with out some serious restrictions. 

I do wonder though if added dampeners help the landing gear absorb a hard landing better than the stock gear set up.   

Doug Johnson

#4
I think it looks a lot more like the modified Pilatus Porter shock absorber a frame landing gear or a Storch appears to me that the lower strut is rigid and hinged at mid point. Maybe I can find more info, would help if I spoke Russian.

I wonder if they considered Wilga gear and decided it would affect the landing gear CG.

I have to agree with Gordon though The aluminum gear would have been easier although I personally believe putting H-295 gear legs on would have been the way to go. According to Robert Casebeer that was the original choice but for primarily expediency and and James cox familiarity with Cessnas new Fiberglas gear legs they were chosen.

But it always boils down to parts availability and the need for parts was on 07/13. I think even aluminum gear legs were hard to find at the time.

Doug
Doug

Rais

I managed to find the last photo of this plane. Now the plane has been dismantled and is lying there. garage. My friends are trying to buy him back and return him to flying.
I haven't seen Doug Johnson here in a while, is he doing well?!

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Louis

Quote from: Gordon Cragg on September 10, 2014, 08:02:04 PMMy point is that adding this "stiffener" makes me think the dynamics of the landing gear have been totally changed. Just my opinion.

Depends if the landing gear is now hinged.  If it is hinged like all the Helio except 700-800 , then this is a fantastic solution.  The poor elasticity of the fiberglass or aluminium gear is now no more under stress, and there is now a real shock absorber.  It becomes again a Helio.  No more a Cessna with a springy gear.  I have thousands hours on a 800, and hated each landing in it.  This is the way to do it.  On the heavy side, but probably less stress finally on the structure than the fixed no real absorber in rough field.  They could have remove some weight from the upper part of the gear that continue afater the pickup point.  And no more that ajustable shaft that was replacing the real shcok absorber of the 391 to 295.

The design of the 800 was a mess.  The only good thing was the changes of the carry trough.  The engine was a bad choice ( the only one available ) , the landing gear was a mess and badly manufacture, the cowling could have been better than the front of a world war 2 jeep.  The longer stab was never implemented to counterweight the engine, making it a beast to fly.

After thousand hours in it, i tried a 295.  Wow !!  That was it, i saw what a real Helio was.

Louis

Looking at the photo, i really think the gear is now hinged and supported with the Pilatus like shock absorbing struts

Louis

The tailwheel assembly was also quite different from the original.  The A frame was a little sturdier ans the fork wasn't welded.  It was held in place with four bolts and a block of aluminum.  Some slack would develop at intervals.  It was important to remove the slack to prevent the shimmy from destroying everything