395A Float STC

[gearedone]

It was my understanding that the long range tanks (120 gallon) appeared on 1200 series production and along with U-10D. There they removed a rib to put the additional bladders further out on the wing. Clarence Brent did exhaustive testing on this..

[jmetzler]

I don't know which Helio was the first to have a 120 gallon fuel system, but H395, U-10A military number 62-3603, civilian SN 532 has 120 gallon tanks. I just did the annual on it and it's located in Lancaster SC. I'll attach a couple pages from the military manual, one lists the military serial numbers and the corresponding MFG serial numbers. I'll also attach a page from the Military Service Manual which shows how the military Helios were coded. U-10A,B,D had little to do with serial number, but mostly indicated how they were outfitted i.e. 60 gallon vs 120 gallon tanks, para drop door, etc. The U-10D of course were all H295, 1200 series aircraft. I won't try to correct all the incorrect details in previous posts; take a look at the attached pages as they clarify a lot of the questions.

Regarding gross weight increases, the only STC's I'm aware of are:
SA1467CE which increased H395 SN 556 and up to 3300 lb. It involves some split tubes and a later style stabilator.
SA2261CE increased H395 SN 556 and up to 3800 lb. It involves some split tubes, later style stabilator, extended antibalance tab, heavy rear spar wings. (Not all 120 gallon wings are heavy rear spar.)
SA1589CE increases the H295 to 3800 lb with some split tubes, extended antibalance tab.

I'm not aware of any gross weight increase STC for any H391B, H395A, pre SN 556 H395's nor H250 aircraft.

[gearedone]

I was also under the impression that the airspeed indicator was re-calibrated and placarded as well to reflect the increased gross weight for 3800 pound airplanes..

[jmetzler]

Ccorrect, there are airspeed marking changes for all the STC's as is the addition of a Flight Manual Supplement and weight and balance revision. I didn't list all the fine details.

[TreeTopFlyer]

This might have been posted but Helio 295JA sn 514 has an upgross kit to 3800 lbs.  I flew this plane back in the mid-late 90's.  Jerry Jaques sold it to Eathdata aviation and now its in SD with Horizon (I think).  It has a camera hole in it.  I remember researching this because I had heard only H395 helio's after 556 were eligilble.  There was paperwork in the logbooks that had the STC and I believe a logbook signoff by Clarence Brent.  I think at the time I spoke with Jim metzler about it.....Don't quote me 15 years ago.

PS.. Doug and Stephen don't stop I found it all quite entertaining! LOL! 

[TreeTopFlyer]

I had thought it was all unusual because of the N number 295JA when it was actually a 395...but seem to recall now it might have had 295 wings....but upon review it all looked kosher!

[Doug Johnson]

I was hoping to post this before anyone else did.

I was thinking about the 120 gal fuel so I looked at the same U-10 parts catalog and U-10 flight  manual that Jim did and discovered that those codes go all the way to Z and that except for first 4 U-10A's and the Army U-10B's all the U-10A's and B's beginning with (62-3603) are coded L and can have 120 gal fuel systems they are interconnected and directly feed the engine with selection valves near the fuel shutoff.

The U-10D is coded K they also have 120 gal fuel system but the selection valves are in the overhead.

As far as the 391 up-gross there is a factory up gross on c/n 032 and above. Gross wt increased from 2800 to 3000 lbs previous #'s require Helio Mod # 21 (replaces all landing gear and some structural modifications to increase in flight gross). Looking through FAA files this appears to have been done on all 391's still in existence.

edit STC SA1467SE is for the H-395 NOT THE H-391 apparently 502 to 546?

Then there is Clarence Brents STC SA1467SE for the H-395 up-gross from 3000 to 3,300lbs.

That's interesting about c/n 514 because I just looked at my FAA file on it. which is just a word file summary of the PDF file I don't see the 3800lb STC eventually I will start on 337's. The 3800lb up-gross requires split sleeves to strengthen the diagonals in all the  horizontal bays top and bottom since Clarence developed the STC to begin with I'll bet he required sleeves on the vertical diagonals on each side and it was done through the 337's process also having Clarence's signature on it since he was the FAA Helio DER it probably took less than 10 minutes to get approved.

While looking for Fuel system information. I found some weight and balance sheets in the U-10 flight Manual If I understand them correctly these are for the U-10 A and B, and they are definitely not for the civilian version of the H-395. I will attach them.

I didn't see anything about remarking the airspeed indicator on the U-10. But I know that the H-295 requires corrections in the flight manual for maneuvering speed think it just suggested that you remark the air speed indicator by lowering maneuvering speed. I beleive this had something to do with the spar carry through.

When I put my 295 back together Larry Montgomery suggested I remark the the airspeed indicator even though it wasn't required.

As I suggested to Stephen if we don't bicker back and forth we won't get near as many posts,
Glad to help entertain you just keep posting yourself, tree top level is fun if you don't land in them, I prefer the ultralight at treetop level.

Thanks for the post Jim

Doug

[gearedone]

I prefer not to have tree branches and leaves on the main's!! Too much work to clean it up.

Try putting the tail-wheel through a fence sometime..I did once!!

Cheers
Stephen

[gearedone]

This might have been posted but Helio 295JA sn 514 has an upgross kit to 3800 lbs.  I flew this plane back in the mid-late 90's.  Jerry Jaques sold it to Eathdata aviation and now its in SD with Horizon (I think).  It has a camera hole in it.  I remember researching this because I had heard only H395 helio's after 556 were eligilble.  There was paperwork in the logbooks that had the STC and I believe a logbook signoff by Clarence Brent.  I think at the time I spoke with Jim metzler about it.....Don't quote me 15 years ago.

PS.. Doug and Stephen don't stop I found it all quite entertaining! LOL!

http://airlineinfo.com/Sites/DailyAirline/web-content/oiapdf17/8.pdf

[jmetzler]

The military flew Helios a percentage over factory gross weight, however, I don't believe you'll find FAA approval to use that weight in civilian life.

I'm looking at STC SA1467CE STC coversheet, dated December 28, 1978. It only covers H395 unless someone has a later revision. I can post the cover sheet if anyone wants to see it. The 3800 lb gross weight STC's require changes to the airspeed (not optional or suggested), I don't know for sure about the 3300 lb STC for the H395 as I don't have a copy of the required Flight Manual Supplement. The gross weight increases are not related to the carry-thru.

Using the services of a DER like Clarence Brent, you can get FAA 8110-3 approval for all kinds of things, and I suspect that's what someone has for SN 514, which makes the change approved for that aircraft. There should be supporting data for the 8110-3 which would indicate what changes were made, but that might be long gone. I'm not sure how the STC could have been used unless it was the basis for the 8110-3, but Clarence did some interesting things. 

Jim Metzler

[Doug Johnson]

Jim,
Thanks for correcting my errors.

I wasn't intending to imply in anyway that those U-10 gross weights could be used on a civilian 395.

I have a whole bunch of STCs in pdf files and the file name indicates whats inside I used to have a file named 391, 3300 up-gross. I just looked inside that file Increase in maximum gross weight from 3,000 lbs. to 3,300 lbs. per Clarence H. Brent Drawings B395-1 apparently when I named the file so I would know what it was I didn't see the 5 in the drawing #.

It's a good thing you're here to keep me straight. I'll try to do better in the future and will go back and edit.

I will also have to back and look through my 391 files and try to figure out what I thought I was seeing.

Doug

[Mike]

Hello All,
Its been a while but we are ready to put 1006 in the paint shop.
Hope to fly it by Spring 2015
Floats; No STC for the 3400's. Discussions with TC have me looking for a good pair of 2870's.
Let me know if you have something for sale.

Still, would like to put the 3300 gross up info by my inspector.
If anyone has the complete STC for SA 1467CE or any 337 documents please let me know.
Will gladly pay a reasonable fee to obtain this in anticipation the Canadian Authorities will see the merit in allowing it, as it is successful on cn 1008.

Also, Info on the method the GO 480 conversion that was approved on cn 1008? STC or 337?
and any full text of the documents, for my review with TC also.

With any luck, 1006 will be flying shortly.

Thanks,
Mike
mike@smartenergycanada.ca

[rmartell]

Mike, where are you located. May know someone that may have a set.
Bob - 204-952-1529

[rmartell]

Also Mike, I noticed a few strings back you talking about your engine. I have a 0-540, A1A5 for sale. Was mounted on my H-250 and was repaired with time continued time of ~450 hours. This engine is solid, and comes with re-built mags, baffles, carburator, heat box, leads, prop governor, starter, alternator (100 amp).

[paullapoint]

Hi Mike, I talked to a Mr. Jack Tomonica a year or so ago about his 391b on floats-4119D. It was on 2870's for years but he has it on 3430's now. He said he had an stc but I think maybe just a field approval. He said it was a much better and safer machine on the 3430's though. It wasn't sunk down in the water so bad when loaded and no prop spray. He said the spray was so bad on 2870's that you couldn't see out the front on takeoff. Paul