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General Category => General Helio Discussion => Topic started by: lbpa18 on July 30, 2010, 12:51:52 AM

Title: Manufacturers List price
Post by: lbpa18 on July 30, 2010, 12:51:52 AM
Anybody have any numbers on what one of these cost when they were new vs. what a new 185 cost?
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: mrhelio on July 30, 2010, 10:20:07 AM
In 1968 a Helio Courier MK II had a bare bones list price at $33,900.00 and the Helio Super Courier @ $ 38,900.00

The 1400 series H-295 as of 1972 was @ $ 41,900

The last Helio built in 1974 went out the door equipped at $105,900 and something
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: mrhelio on July 31, 2010, 08:41:26 AM
The first Helio delivered a 391B had a list price of $ 26, 500.00

That airplane had the registration number of N26B and sold to Alan Bemis
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on November 08, 2011, 03:06:00 PM
Dudley V. Talcott, Farmington, CT purchased N28B c/n 005 this was the first aircraft constructed at Pittsburg, KS using parts returned from Fleet, Mfg the parts were made by Fleet mfg for  c/n 001 through c/n 006.

Edit; Dudley V. Talcott, Farmington, CT actually purchased c/n 001 in Nov'54
       Alan Bemis, Concord, Massachusetts actually bought N28B c/n 005.

(http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37.0;attach=401;image)
(http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37.0;attach=399;image)

Doug
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on November 11, 2011, 09:44:09 AM
Edit; Dudley V. Talcott, Farmington, CT actually purchased c/n 001 in Nov'54 he's just a demo pilot here, Alan Bemis, Concord, Massachusetts actually bought N28B.

More nit picking, from this article I think Dudley V. Talcott, Farmington, CT purchased N28B c/n 005 this was the first aircraft constructed at Pittsburg, KS.
(http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37.0;attach=445;image)
(http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37.0;attach=447;image)
(http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37.0;attach=449;image)
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on November 13, 2011, 05:22:22 AM
I just happened to notice the picture 3rd one down in second attachment above showing the interceptors. Did the early 391's have four on each side? Or is this early photo retouching?

Doug
(http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37.0;attach=463;image)
(http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37.0;attach=467;image)
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Louis on November 13, 2011, 05:57:05 AM
I did have read about four interceptors on the first plane.  Like a test plane.  Did not know there were some of the production plane installed like that.

You really find interesting photos !

Thanks

Louis
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on November 13, 2011, 11:01:09 AM
Louis,
The picture is c/n 005, you have c/n 001 & 011 in your backyard you ought to ask if theirs any sign of the 4 interceptors per wing left, they would have probably upgraded. I guess BC isn't exactly your back yard. Gerald is a site member though maybe he can tell us.

C-GOOI   1954  H-391A   001   Quebec   N242B first all metal plane mfg Canton, MA Jaars sold it, to Neil Bilodeau

C-FDIY     1955  H-391B   011   BC   N25BA, Gerald Jordan

This is some information I found maybe some one can figure out the first 11 Helios from this stuff.

June 1954  Flight
During the past few months, Fleet Manufacturing, Ltd., of Fort Erie, Ontario, have been making components of the Courier, for assembly at the Boston, Massachusetts, plant of Helio Aircraft.
It is now announced that the two companies have concluded an agreement whereby Fleet have sole manufacturing and sales rights for the Courier throughout the British Commonwealth.

1955 Aircraft intelligence
Fleet Courier Under an agreement with the American designers of the Helio Courier, Fleet Manufacturing, Ltd., hold all Commonwealth production and sales rights for this aircraft, H-391B, third of the Helioplane series. In addition Fleet will build components on behalf of the design firm for assembly in the United States. edit picture CF-IKF c/n 004

Six Fleet-built Couriers have been assembled in Helio's Boston factory, but future Canadian licensed Couriers will be produced by Fleet at Fort Erie.

Flight Aug,1956    Canadian Co-operation (fleet)
 
THE Helio Courier, a clean all-metal four-seat high-wing liaison machine which was shown in a photograph on page 760 of last week's issue of Flight, is the subject of news from Canada.
During the past few months, Fleet Manufacturing, Ltd., of Fort Erie, Ontario, has been making components of the Courier, for assembly at the Boston, Massachusetts, plant of Helio Aircraft.
It is now announced that the two companies have concluded an agreement whereby Fleet have sole manufacturing and sales rights for the Courier throughout the British Commonwealth.

Fleet will now make complete aircraft, of which Canadian and Commonwealth deliveries will be made from Fort Erie; at the same time, they will supply airframe components to Boston for United States and other markets.

The facilities of the plastics department have been expanded this year—and indeed the overall volume of work at the Fleet factory has increased by 20 per cent over that of last year. In addition to its subcontract production for the big aircraft companies (and for many non-aviation concerns) the company is now performing more work directly for the Canadian government.
During the year, the Helio Courier (for which Fleet holds Canadian and Commonwealth manufacturing and sales rights) has been demonstrated to the Canadian Services, including a recent evaluation by Army units at Wainwright, Alberta.
Modification of the prototype Helio being carried out at Fort Erie at the time of our visit was intended to lead to an increase in the certified normal gross weight from 2,800 lb to 3,000 lb. edit Helio Mod no. 21

The remaining five machines of the Fleet-manufactured batch have now been sold.
Fleet holds Canadian and Commonwealth manufacturing and sales rights for the Helio Courier, and five Couriers have been manufactured at Fort Erie. President and general manager of Fleet Manufacturing is H. L. Eberts.


Helio   Flight Aug, 1957

Courier Bearing the company designation H-391B, the Courier was designed six years ago to exploit its sponsors' ideas for an aeroplane with exceptional short-field performance, great safety (and virtual freedom from stalling) and a low noise level. After experimenting with a converted Piper airframe the
Courier was planned completely from scratch, and although it is superficially conventional it is in reality quite unusual.
The constant-section, unbraced wing, of allmetal construction with fabric-covered ailerons, is provided with high-lift slotted flaps over 74 per cent of the span and with automatic slats over the entire leading edge. Unlike other slow-speed aircraft, the Courier has no fixed tailplane; instead it is provided with a variable incidence "slab" tail with a span of 15ft. The cabin is entered by large doors, on the port side forward and to starboard at the rear. There are two pairs of seats which, with their mountings and surrounding structure, are stressed to recommendations of the Flight Safety Foundation.
At the rear is a 200 lb baggage compartment; and, by removing the rear pair of seats, a compartment 6ft in length is made available, capable of taking a maximum load of 1,000 lb.

Couriers are manufactured in Kansas by the Helio-owned Mid-States Manufacturing Corporation; the type is also subject.of an agreement with Fleet Manufacturing of Port Erie, Canada, who hold rights for the British Commonwealth.
A number of those recently delivered are twin-float versions.

Helio Aircraft Corporation, Norwood,
Massachusetts.

price 1957 H-391 $8,750      Flight
                C-180 $4,750
price 1958 H-391 $10,560
                C-180 _____-
price 1970 H-295 $21,000
                C-180 $13,150

The Helio Courier boasts remarkable safety for a single-engine aeroplane; it can follow a helicopter landing pattern and land on small heliports. Many Couriers have been sold to bush operators outside the U.S.A. Thirty-three were built in 1957.

Helio Courier
The Courier is powered by a Lycoming GO-435-C2B engine of 260 h.p.,driving a constant-speed propeller. A four seater, it is an all-metal high-wing monoplane with fixed undercarriage and combines relatively high performance and long range with stall-proof, slow-flight and ultra-short-field utility.
The constant-section, unbraced wing, of all metal construction with fabric-covered ailerons, is provided with high-lift slotted flaps over 74 per cent of the span and with automatic slats over the entire leading edge. Unlike other slow-speed aircraft, the Courier has no fixed tailplane; instead it is provided with a variableincidence "slab" tail with a span of 15ft. The cabin is entered by large doors, on the port side forward and to starboard at the rear.
There are two pairs of seats which, with their mountings and surrounding structure, are  stressed to recommendations of the Flight Safety Foundation. At the rear is a 200 lb baggage compartment; and, by removing the rear pair of seats, a compartment 6ft in length is made available, capable of taking a maximum load of 1,000 lb. Equipment includes an oversize constantspeed propeller, Goodyear castoring wheels, Griswold single-strap seat and chest belt and luggage compartment. Edo floats or Federal wheel-ski gear are offered.

Strato-Courier This model differs from the standard Courier in having a supercharged Lycoming GSO-480-A1A6 engine driving a three-blade Hartzell automatic constant-speed propeller (the standard Courier has a two blade Hartzell). It has been developed particularly for high-altitude photography and can operate at comfortably over 30,000 ft.

Helio Aircraft Corporation, Norwood,
Massachusetts.
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Ken Berger on November 13, 2011, 11:09:47 AM
I agree with Louise: you really have found some interesting photos. 

I'm pretty sure that Chris Meyer, of Everett, Washington, had a pair of old wings for his 391 that had the 4 interceptors per wing like the photo.

Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on November 13, 2011, 12:06:49 PM
Ken,
Can you find the c/n's and original reg #'s of the Helio the wings belonged to, and the Helio he's putting them on. Maybe you can get some pictures and information from Chris.

Doug
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Louis on November 13, 2011, 05:48:06 PM


C-GOOI   1954  H-391A   001   Quebec   N242B first all metal plane mfg Canton, MA Jaars sold it, to Neil Bilodeau



Yes.  I have been rescued by 001 last winter.  A good way to come back home.  I will ask Neil to check for any sign of removal of interceptors.  May be in the logbook, there is a really big box of logbook for 001

Louis
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Ray Dorsey on November 13, 2011, 09:17:41 PM
N173K has 4. There was an s/b or s/i for the removal of the outer .I haven,t found the info or the reason why. Have asked other,s but no reply.
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on November 13, 2011, 10:01:45 PM
N173K is c/n 074

Maybe Louis can find an (S/B) service bulletin, (S/I) service instruction  or (A/D) airworthiness directive in the logs of Ole # 1 N242B that covers this.

If we don't hear from some one it might take some phone calls.

Doug
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Neil on November 14, 2011, 10:38:03 AM

I have opening on wing for 3 and 4 interceptor but only two, I check on the logbook and no inscription for remove the 4 at 2 interceptor on each wing ( I have the first logbook).

(http://flyhelio.com/smf/gallery/0/medium_205-141111102341.jpeg)


(http://flyhelio.com/smf/gallery/0/medium_205-141111102439.jpeg)

Neil
Ol#1
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Neil on November 14, 2011, 10:49:32 AM
And I check on promotional (242B) video only 2

Neil
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8090875474584011710#

Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on November 14, 2011, 01:23:48 PM
Neil,

Thanks for posting the video address.

I had seen this video before but such poor quality it was almost not watchable and everything about the U-5 twin had been cut off.

I did see when they demonstrated the interceptors in the video there were only two.

Doug
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Louis on November 14, 2011, 07:21:44 PM
I have opening on wing for 3 and 4 interceptor but only two, I check on the logbook and no inscription for remove the 4 at 2 interceptor on each wing ( I have the first logbook).

Anyway, like you told me this afternoon, why putting an interceptor in front of the aileron ?  The disrupted air would probably make the aileron less effective.

I remember Larry saying that they removed it because it was giving nothing.  The interceptor are great because they work very strongly taking all the energy of a forward movement.  But they do cause a lot of drag.  Aileron do their work with a smaller drag.  I would not put interceptors in front of them.

Louis
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on November 15, 2011, 07:12:39 AM
Louis,
That make so much sense it makes me feel stupid. I can see that it would be just extra weight with no benefit and I agree, it probably would make the ailerons less effective, and Frise ailerons already protrude below the wing to add drag .

Doug
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on November 21, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
I thought N28B c/n 005 was destroyed in a crash in MA in '68 but I was looking in the FAA registry and I find an expired reg for c/n 005  N28B   1955  H-391B.

I wonder if there's a wreck stored in Naples, FL  from when it in crashed MA '68, and reportedly damaged beyond repair.  It's now owned by a WILLIAM L. STUCKER.

Can anyone help with this?

Doug
Title: "Ole no 2" ?
Post by: Doug Johnson on December 10, 2011, 09:58:18 AM
I was able to put a little bit more together about the first 6 Helios.

Does anyone have registration #'s for 2, 3, 5 & 6?

Anyone know what happened to "Ole No. 2" or even what it's tail # was? edit N243B

After more crosschecking and rereading archives I am satisfied this is how it went.

But I am open to new information and perfectly willing to edit.


The first 6 crash cages were manufactured at Canton, Ma,  initially 3 sets of sub assy components (tail cone, wings, vertical tail and stabilator) were sent to Canton by Fleet mfg in early 1954 and three are assymbled there. c/n 001 N242B, remains as a factory demonstrator. June 1954 c/n 002 and c/n 003 are sold to private individuals (ref Canton Historical society), #4,5,6 crash cages are sent to Fleet mfg for assembly, the jigs for the cages were to be sent at a later date. Helio cage c/n 006 is completed by Fleet in 1954 and eventually sold in 1957 as CF-IBF s/n FML-004. In 1955 two more sets of unassymbled parts along with cage #5,6 and  tooling are sent to Pittsburg. The construction jigs and tooling at Canton are also sent to Pittsburg, where c/n 005 N28B, is completed in 1955 using parts and the cages returned by Fleet. After c/n 006 all are completely manufactured and assymbled including fiberglass parts in Pittsburg, KS.
Title: Re: Manufacturers List price
Post by: Doug Johnson on August 09, 2012, 11:00:51 AM
Found this on Helio N4123D c/n 042 this is supposed to be in the log if you have a 391 with the extra slots and it had blades in front of the ailerons when the outboard interceptor  are removed.

Aircraft modified, with removal of two outboard interceptor blades in each wing (Service Modification #29; Factory Drawing SK-516)

lot of paperwork missing in a lot of Helio's

Doug