Author Topic: Helio rat'ler  (Read 7085 times)

c/stolaircraft

Helio rat'ler
« on: September 21, 2010, 05:03:16 PM »
Does any one know any thing about this helio?



« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 05:06:00 PM by c/stolaircraft »
Reuben, future mission pilot and helio fan

mrhelio

  • Guest
Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 07:43:34 PM »
What a piece of junk!!

c/stolaircraft

Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 08:37:28 PM »
well with a name like rat'ler what would expect? but what made it junk?

Reuben
Reuben, future mission pilot and helio fan

mrhelio

  • Guest
Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 07:14:15 AM »
It was an ill fated attempt to turn around Helio Aircraft LTD when a production total equaled only 18 airplanes with the 800/700 models. James Cox came from Cessna's agricultural division when Helio once again resumed production in 1983. You cannot judge an aircraft by it's name. It was the wrong airplane at the wrong time. Helio was also trying to go after the Fed Ex market with an improved Helio Stallion that very much resembled the Cessna Caravan, which had already established that market. Given these parameters, Aerospace Technologies under the direction of Loren Abbott went bust and after Helio was delinquent in lease obligations at the Pittsburg, Kansas facility attorney's filed injunctions to pad-lock the doors. The end of the story!!

Doug Johnson

Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 12:05:01 PM »
I was doing an N-number search and I came across a listing for a Helio model AG-R c/n A1 reg N4405S in Kansas.   last known to be in long term storage Atkinson Airport 


And was it really that bad of an idea? Maybe it was just bad marketing and timing.

Dean Wilson of Kitfox fame produced the Eagle DW-1 an Agplane It's conception was to fly slow and carry a lot of weight. There are still 65 of them registered granted it could carry more weight than any Helio manufactured. but the agplane concept doesn't seem that bad to me.

I was going to post a picture of the Eagle but it doesnt look anything like a Helio and this being a Helio site it didn't seem appropriate.

Doug
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 03:09:17 PM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

greatlakeshelio

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Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 02:56:10 PM »
The Helio AG-R failed for many reasons, one, it had to high of fuel burn and two, it came at the wrong time when Helio was on it's way out the door. The hopper load was insufficient to warrant production at a time when Ag type airplanes had seen better days.

By this time Robert Sinn and Loren Abbott had bankrupted Helio Aircraft LTD. under a phony organization called Aerospace Technologies. The total production for the H800/700 equaled 18 airplanes. These are the worst examples of the legendary C/STOL utility machines to roll out the door.

Doug Johnson

Re: Helio Rat'ler
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 07:21:12 PM »
I just received a rare photo from Larry Teufel of the AG Helio and remembered this previous post.

The two pictures look slightly different. Anyone know if the photo is of the prototype ag plane that reportedly wasn't completed?

Anyone have another picture of this one, if so please add it to this post.

Doug


« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 02:44:07 PM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

LTeufel

Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2014, 09:54:03 AM »
Doug, the picture  I sent is the only one I remember them ever building.  The story I remember after talking to the test pilot was that they flew it once and tore it apart.  It was unstable in flight was the only thing they would say.  It was right during the final hours before doors were closed.

 Some of the parts were later seen on a Helio 800 rebuild in Portland, the tail had Rat'ler painted on it.
LT

Doug Johnson

Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 05:40:34 PM »
Larry,
According to the FAA files and Katerina Sutphin (who says she has a photo of H-17 N4104D with the Rat'ler emblem on the tail). The Ag Rat'ler N4405S rudder/tail and empennage was purchased by Al Nordgren for Bob Lien to repair H-17 about 12/89 sold 09/91 to Ron Sutphin.

Looking at the picture that was taken of the completed Rat'ler at the "Agricultural Aviation Convention" and your picture, the side windows and cowling look different.

Did you ever see James E Cox (General Manager) experimental Helio N1CB, rereg as N3274P supposedly it was built using parts from the first H-400 AG-R Ag Plane that you say was torn apart after one flight, James cox experimental was also called an H-400.

I was told they learned enough from the first one to build a second one called an H-21A Ag Rat'ler that went to the "Agricultural Aviation Show". According to Frank Rowe the fiberglass landing gear let it sit to low, causing problems with the spray boom.
There wasn't enough interest shown at the "Agricultural Aviation Show" (probably venture capital) to take it forward, and that was the end of Helio Aircraft ltd.

I hope there is someone at the Oshkosh "60 yr Helio reunion" that was in the inner circle and can answer some of these little perplexing questions.

Doug
Doug

Doug Johnson

Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2014, 03:18:32 PM »
A few days ago I spoke with Bob Casebeer and mentioned the Agplane Helios Factorys last grasp at a straw it was finished expediently just to have something  to take to the Ag-show.

The lengthened carry-through with walkways and a place to install stallion gear for and tailwheel for wider stance and ground clearance didn't happen. so no one was impressed.

Below is a little better description of the two ag planes turns out that the Cox experimental Helio, is actually the first AG-plane and the first Ag-plane fuselage is still in existence in Pittsburg

c/n 1, N1CB, built 08/82 as Experimental H-400 Model AG-R

N1CB 1st intended as proof of concept prototype experimental Ag Plane (only low wing model Helio would build) called the Cox Agplane, 400 gal hopper, The tail cone and fuselage were built at the Factory Pittsburg KS then removed from the premises to finish as ""Experimental Home built"" by James Cox. Built with a welded steel tubeing tailcone with removable aluminum panels for cleaning instead of fabric covering made it tail heavy, it was almost uncontrollable due to a poorly designed control system inadequately supported push pull tubes had replaced cables they vibrated badly, the heavy tail and the wings not having enough dihedral (only 4.5'') also made it unstable in flight, after one flight it was promptly disassembled. Reportedly it was felt that enough had been learned to start a second one.

Affidavit from James E. Cox, former General Manager, Helio Aircraft Ltd letter to FAA for registry states that “N1CB”, a Helio Aircraft Ltd H-400, s/n 1, with a Lycoming IO-720-A1B engine with Hartzell HC-C3YR-1RG propeller, was built from parts “by the undersigned” and “I am the owner.” James Cox KS rereg as N3274P, registry expired 8/11 the fusealage is sitting in a junk yard just north of where the Helio factory was."


The 2nd AG-plane, started was finished as a hurry up Job so they could take it to an AG show.

s/n A-1 registry N4405S built 11/84 as Model H-21A Ag Rat'ler

N4405S, 2nd Low Wing Rat'ler Ag Plane, Painted dark green, resembled the Cessna AgWagon built as experimental market survey Ag Plane was placed in experimental research development category with Lycoming IO-720 A1B and Hartzel HC-E3YR-1RF prop, built by long time Helio employees up to the point of joining the tailcone to the "cage" and hopper and engine mount, at which time the new management brought in new people and "finished" the aircraft. Departure from the original design concept created the problems that prevented development of a successful plane the fiberglas landing gear (used for expediency) instead of stallion gear was too short leaving wings too close to the ground to provid proper ground clearance for spray booms. a departure from a longer redsigned carry through giving walkways to load hopper and a place to mount the gear for wider footprint and better stability and the gear was not properly located far enough forward to support a loaded hopper. The control system was rigged with cables, some of which were through the hopper. The propeller was not compatible with the engine [Hartzell was designing a new propeller for the plane]. Insufficient dihedral in the wing installation on first Ag plane may not have been completely corrected due to short carry through. The concept was to utilize the larger Stallion tail wheel and main landing gear which would be located to properly support the loaded plane and be in the proper center of gravity. Also larger wheels and tires would have increased ground clearance and improved "off airport" capabilities. Plans to build 10 were dropped, after lack of interest (venture capital) at "Agricultural Aviation Show" it was put in long term storage Pittsburg's Atkinson Airport, dereg ?, The Ag Rat'ler's rudder/tail and empennage were used by Al Nordgren to repair H-17 while reg N4104D

Doug

concept note improper placement of gear that carried over to the prototype


concept model notice gear placement artists
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 03:27:02 PM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Doug Johnson

Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 09:19:24 PM »
I found another Pic better view poor definition Janes aircraft

found better pic unidentified SFA forum

Doug
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 01:08:06 AM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Doug Johnson

Re: Helio rat'ler
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2014, 01:09:29 AM »
I found another Pic better view poor definition Janes aircraft

found better pic unidentified SFA forum

Doug

Doug