Author Topic: Helio H-800 H-18  (Read 7298 times)

Doc99

Helio H-800 H-18
« on: August 03, 2013, 01:14:28 PM »
Hello to all Helio Drivers,

I am new to this forum, but do own a Helio H-800. It is currently on wheels, but I have PK 4000 amphibs , and Airglas skis for it. I have flown it on floats and wheels, but have never put the skis on. I was supposed to get some training from Ron Sutphin when I purchased it, but that never materialized. I am looking for some guidance on great instruction on this aircraft or perhaps someone interested in purchase. I either have to fly it more, or sell it. I know that there are quite a few of you out there that know a lot more about Helios than I do, so any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Greg


Louis

Re: Helio H-800 H-18
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 06:18:57 PM »
Airglas skis ?

I did not know you could put them on the 800.  I had the big 4000 on mine.  http://natmongeau.me/RVA_2003/index.html

Louis

Louis

Re: Helio H-800 H-18
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 06:21:46 PM »
H-18

So is this the very last Helio ever manufactured ?

louis

Doc99

Re: Helio H-800 H-18
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 07:57:46 PM »
Yes, it is the last one ever made. I think that they are Airglas skis, but I could be wrong. As I said, I have never put them on. The plane flies great, but I am far from an expert in it and therefore haven't pushed the envelope. I have lots of hours in a Maule Super Rocket, but this is a far different beast.

Louis

Re: Helio H-800 H-18
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 08:38:21 PM »
There is some little things to check and know.  The metal box that hold the axel for the wheels.  The one that does the joint between the fiberglass ( or STC aluminium )  legs and the wheel axel.  The welding have to be checked.  It was faulty on mine and some others.  Like if it was weld on the corner, and then grinded.  There was a lack of penetration.  When i broke my legs, we were thinking it was the fiberglass that failed.  But it wasn't.  it was that box that failed, and then the fiberglass legs went into the ground and had no option than to break.  There was some kind of canadian AD note on this, but somehow i can't find it.  But i did saw it a long time ago after my incident.

Also, if you ever replace the shaft that holds the landing gear, engine mount, and frame together, it is NOT the same as a 295.  Although we will tell you otherwise.  The shaft is not the same length, not hollow, and the bolts at the end are not the same thread.

If you try to start the motor with the yoke full front, the starter is disconnected by a switch on the yoke position.

It is not an easy plane to fly.  Not at all if you compare it to the other Helio.  Well, not easy to look elegant.  I have around 4000 hours on it.  And not one of my landings were looking like if i did know how to fly.  But other more talented than me were doing quite a good job.  There is still one around here.  We were two 800 in our skies.

I am curious about the lenght of the stab.  Mine was like the others Helio, but a book and some litterature mention it 6 inches longer.  Is yours the same length as others ?

Don't put full power before reaching 50 mph.  Particulary with a left cross wind.  It might be true with other Helio, but it is truer with this one.

louis

Doc99

Re: Helio H-800 H-18
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 09:42:48 PM »
Louis,

Thanks for the advice. I'll have my A&P check out the items you mentioned. Do you use the tailwheel locking feature for landings? If so, do you use it in all types of landing situations? Thanks.

Greg

Louis

Re: Helio H-800 H-18
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2013, 04:44:30 AM »
This is almost a constant debate.  Using the lock or not.  I can give a long explanation, or a short one.  The short one would be:

Don't use it, anyway you will brake it if you do.  If you want it for taxi ( and this is where it is more desirable ) then don't use it on landing.  You have a small chance to keep it working.

A longer explanation would be to explain how it works, how it is different on different planes even if it always named a tailwheel lock, and why you can't use it on a 800.

On a 800, you will land fast.  The touch down will be around double the speed that what the tailwheel clutch and lock was designed for.  That's a lot of energy on this poor wheel clutch and lock.  If you land on a three point.  Because if you do a two point, then the tailwheel is not solicited.  Speed is a matter of angle of attack.  The 800 have shorter legs than the others.  And they are not connected to chuck absorber.  They are stiff and lock in place at that angle of attack when you are on the ground.  So touching the three wheels at the same time on the ground, with this low angle of attack, gives you a speed of around 80 mph ( also depending of the weight).  That is very fast for that tailwheel mechanism.  A lot of energy.  Trying to land slower, let's say touching at 65, will gives you a higher angle of attack, and will put the plane on a configuration that it will touch the tailwheel first, with the mains around two feet high in the air.   Then the plane drops on the mains from that two feet, the tailwheel goes up a little, then down again.  Ouch !!  A lot of energy on that tailwheel.

Having the tailwheel lock at OFF will help to let it survive. 
Landing on the mains too.  With the tailwheel off the ground as you slow down.  Like a feet or even two in the air.

The clutch is a strange apparatus.  It is something that will keep connected the tailwheels to the pedals ... until there is around 30 degrees  of difference.  Once you push enough on one pedal to obtain that 30 degree or so, it will disconnect the tailwheel so you can do a 360 on the same parking spot.  That means that you can't use full rudder and keep the clutch engaged.  Strange situation, since it will disengaged the direction of the tailwheel in situation where you need it most at the first place.  The lock is supposed to prevent the clutch from disengaging.  Not really locking the wheel.  Well, it does both.  But a little slack in all these mechanism, a couple of landings, and the lock will break.  Keep it running and i good shape, then it limits the movement of the rudder since you are fighting against the tailwheel when you try to put full deflection of the rudder.  There is springs that are supposed to allow you to do full deflection of the rudder even with the tailwheel lock in place.  Make them strong, then you will fight gainst them to use the full deflection of the rudder.  Adjust them flimsy, then you won't be able to taxi crosswind.

I recently flown one of the first model of Helio, without any clutch, or lock, or connection between the pedals and the tailwheel.  I loved it.  At least you can use fully the rudder without fighting against the tailwheel. It does taxi not so bad, surprinsgly.

The mecanism is very different from let's say a Waco.  On a Waco, you have a lever.  ON , the tailwheel is connected to the rudder ( Not locked, but connected) .  OFF it is isn't.

Anyway, the short answer: don't use it on landings, anyway you will break it.  The you will be able to use it may be for take off, and for taxing when you want full deflection of the rudder without disengaging the clutch.

Louis

Louis

Re: Helio H-800 H-18
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2013, 04:52:36 AM »
I am very interested in that lenght of the stab.  Since i saw that mention that gives it longer for a 800.  Always found that mine was lacking stab autorithy  ( normal with all that weight far away in the front)  But it was the same lenght than the other.  If the intention was to have a bigger stab, may be the 800 would not be so tough to fly.

With that CG so far in the front, the stab is used at very high angle of attack to slow it down.

If you have some luggage, put them far away in the back.

Louis

Louis

Re: Helio H-800 H-18
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2013, 04:54:37 AM »
Once i broke a disk brake.  We then replace them with disk that have more bolts.  If you have the disk with not many bolts, change it for the other model.  Tough to keep it straight without the brakes.

seaplanes

Re: Helio H-800 H-18
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2013, 06:35:07 AM »
Hello Greg,

Are you still interested in flight instruction in your Helio on PK floats (or in my Helio on PK Floats)?  We provide SES training here in Southern California.  I have owned 4 Helios and had 3 of them on PK Amphibious Floats.  Over the last 28 years I have flown the Helio Amphibian to a dozen countries and to hundreds of remote islands, beaches, bays, lakes, rivers, canals and to and from the open ocean (Pacific and Atlantic)  I have flown the Helio Amphibian in: the Caribbean, Florida, Louisiana, California, across the US many times, to Baja California & Mexico and to all of the Hawaiian Islands.  Photos of my Helio Couriers in just a few of these locations are on the website below.

Let me know if I can help.

Merry Christmas.

Michael Steel

E-mail:  seaplanes@gmail.com

SanDiegoSeaplanes.com
Cell: 858-453-8833
 
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808-SEA-PLANe  or  800-SEA-PLANe
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