Author Topic: Rat’ler prototype 1  (Read 451 times)

Wrench

Rat’ler prototype 1
« on: July 20, 2020, 06:47:09 PM »
I am an A&P and A buddy and I just got the airframe of the rat’ler prototype 1,  it is missing wings and engine, is there anyone out there that knows what type of wings and engine goes with it and anywhere that they could be found
Thanks

Kevin Dunn

Re: Rat’ler prototype 1
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2020, 07:36:22 PM »
As far as I know it had a IO-720.

Doug Johnson

Re: Rat’ler prototype 1
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2020, 08:34:26 PM »
I spoke with Bob Casebeer 3 or 4 yeas ago and mentioned the Agplane prototype he said it was built with a welded steel tubeing tailcone same as used on the H-3 but with removable aluminum panels for cleaning, instead of fabric covering which made the a/c tail heavy, it was almost uncontrollable due to a poorly designed control system inadequately supported push pull tubes had replaced cables they vibrated badly, the heavy tail and the wings not having enough dihedral (only 4.5'') also made it unstable in flight, after one unintended flight it was promptly disassembled. I believe some of its parts were used to build prototype 2.

The Rat’ler proof of concept prototype 1 had a standard H-7/800 Helio wing and a lycoming IO-720 engine.
I believe xeyes has a spare set of h-295 wings thy are aerodynamically the same just different wing attachment fittings.

The lengthened carry-through with walkways and a place to install stallion gear and tailwheel for wider stance and ground clearance didn't happen may have been on pototype but Robert said they weren't used on the 2nd prototype.

Wrench it would be really interesting to see a picture of the fuselage that you have and how it compares to the information that was given to me.

Here are the link to the three previous posts about the prototype ag plane.

http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?topic=1253.msg4788#msg4788

http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?topic=56.msg3162#msg3162

http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?topic=281.msg1440#msg1440
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 04:28:33 PM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Wrench

Re: Rat’ler prototype 1
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2020, 09:13:09 PM »
Sounds like it is not going to fly, we might still look for wings to make it look complete

Wrench

Re: Rat’ler prototype 1
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2020, 10:02:03 PM »
It doesn’t appear to have any control tubes all the cables are still installed,
Is there a way to contact xeyes about the wings?
Thanks if you would like more specific pictures let me know

Doug Johnson

Re: Rat’ler prototype 2
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2020, 01:19:59 AM »
Wrench, the reason it doesn't have any control tubes is beacause this a/c isn't the first proof of concept prototype c/n 1 model H-400 AG-R N327RP, but is actually the 2nd prototype, c/n A-1 model H-21A original registry N4405S with the contol cables ran through the hopper area making it useless as an ag plane.

I would immediatly get rid of those wing tips and try to get a set of extended fuel tank wing tips like those placed on Jay Jensen's N700AA and you might want to look at his engine mount for a turbine engine instead of the IO-720.
 

See more pictures at the Links I posted previously.

Do you know any of the a/c history after it was sold in '89.

This a/c could probably put back into flying condition, it had a valid N registry at one time and was once an airworthy aircraft in the experimental category, personally I see no reason it couldn't be again, its just a big project especialy if you attempted to place it on a strut gear like the stallion, rerouted the control cables out of the hopper area and attempted to make it a functional spray plane, it looks like you have most of the aircraft. My understanding is that the tail was used on an H800, c/n H-17, so you probably don't have a tail and the longer stabilator either but if you could find an H-800 rudder and longer stabilator which are rare you could do it and in a pinch especially if you didn't try to return to a functional ag plane you could use an H-295 tail and stabilator which has been done on at least one H-800. Wings can be found there are a few around some will need to be rebuilt but I just looked at the pictures again and it looks like it is set up for an H-800 wing which has different attacment bolts then H-295 wings.

This particular a/c's main problem was the narrow gear stance with the fiberglass H-800 gear legs it was intended to be placed on Helio stallion main gear both tail wheel and with the strut style main gear mounted on the long wing carry through section that is obviosly still in the fuselage and of course the fact that the control cables were routed through the cemical hopper area.

If the cables were rerouted at some time or you rerouted the cables, it probably could be turned back into to a functional agplane. Looking at the pictures it does looks like the control are in fact routed through the hopper area.

If it wasn't restored to an ag plane mabe you could modify the canopy and put two tandem seats in it, then you have a one of a kind really cool airplane, go turbine and it would be a really cool hot airplane.

I will try to send you my phone # and email by email for some larger pictures.

As far as contacting xeyes. you could send a personal mail to him or you can give me a call and I'll give you his contact info to you.

Just remembered his contact info is here, click on this link   http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?topic=1561.0

The only problem I see is that there probably aren't any H-800 wing attachments available
you would have to go back to H-295 wing and convert to the attachments which have issues and aren't as strong.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 04:56:44 PM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Doug Johnson

Re: Rat’ler prototype 1
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2020, 02:39:24 PM »
Wrench, Just had a thought it is possible that Lucas the guy in Alaska that has access to the Helio type certificate or possibly bought it, may have drawings for the H-800 wing attachments and you could make your own.

Or just had a second thought how about a Stallion sized ag plane with an 800 gal or larger hopper similar to the Air Tractor 802A which is the most popular Ag plane in the world or the Thrush 710P. Maybe Lucas would be interested in working with you to bring the Rat'ler back to flying status and build on that for something like the smaller Air tractor 502B. I have heard that Lucas looking for Helio improvment ideas.

Here is a link to the Air Tractor   https://airtractor.com/aircraft/at-802a/

I looked up the original registry N4405S and it apears to be available.

here is the link   https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?nNumberTxt=N4405S
Doug

Doug Johnson

Re: Rat’ler prototype 1
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2020, 04:06:05 PM »
I just spoke with Eric one of the guys that now owns the Rat'ler fuselage, He says that they found the a/c at a recycling center near Flagstaff. They know nothing of its history.

Anyone know who had it from '89-'90 until present time.  Al Nordgreen reportedly purchased the Tail rudder and stabilator in '90 to repair H17. Who took the wings? Has he had the entire a/c for the last 30 yrs?
Doug