Author Topic: c/n H-18, N399MD  (Read 7011 times)

Doug Johnson

c/n H-18, N399MD
« on: August 01, 2015, 07:37:38 AM »
4 picture check your albums. Please do an internet search maybe you'll come up with one I couldn't find, I need all the help I can get.

Previous posts about N399MD or anything click on   http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=search   Enter ?
 
c/n H-18, built 11/84 as model H-800, advertised as H-800SP (seaplane) original registry N4151K sold '85, dereg export 12/85 reg CP-1945 (Ernesto Asbun) Alas Andinas ltd Cochabamba Bolivia sold 03/86, dereg export re-reg N4151K Don Love Aircraft sales (dealer) KS sold 09/88, Paul Mould TX sold 04/90, Boat co (W. Stevenson) WA placed on PK4000 amphib floats installed ventral fin and Madras droop wing tips '91 rereg N800S sold 06/94, TJ Farms ltd (Tom Hammer) MN sold '03, reg N399MD Surgair inc (Dr. Gregg Frokjer M.D.) ND location change Absarokee, MT sold 06/15, Tony Rusyniak NY (2nd of 2) reportedly intends to place on EDO 3500 floats

 As always any further information or pictures will be greatly appreciated.




« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 12:02:38 AM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Louis

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2015, 08:05:09 AM »
What's the story about the 800 and bolivia  ?  Larry was talking about a guy there that had a lot of ressources for the 800.  He even pretented that this guy ( bolivia or Peru ) had the original and only sets of the 800 plans.

I cannot confirm it because i had one or two pieces from there and they weren't 800 , they were 295

Louis

Louis

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2015, 08:24:42 AM »
who placed on EDO 4000 amphib floats[/color]



Edo 4000 ?

Louis

Louis

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2015, 08:30:50 AM »
and Madras droop wing tips '91[/color]

Any pilot reports about the benefits of those ?  i understand why i would put anything else than the horrible looking original wing tip on a 800, but any benefits on a 295 ?

On a cub, it is mainly an excuse for augmenting the surface by passing from round to square, and keeping roll control , but on a Helio, does it change something.  We don't need roll control from the ailerons.  I wonder if i should install those.

Louis

Gordon Cragg

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2015, 08:57:24 AM »
I spoke with Jim M. at JAAR's about the Madras Air Service Tips installed on a Helio. He said that they had done flight testing on a set installed on an H-295 and could find no real performance differences in flight or takeoff/landing. Apparently these were installed on H-18 by way of a Field Approved 337.
Ace Deemers and his Madras Air Service had several STC's for Cessna and Piper aircraft, but none for a Helio. Other than a precieved cosmetic "improvement" I would not want to additional wingspan (+3").
Gordon Cragg
713-502-7274

Doug Johnson

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 12:16:41 PM »
I disagree with the dislike for additional wingspan part (unless you are trying to get into the standard T-Hanger) but still don't like the droop tips. I made a set of Hoerner wing tips plugs to make the Hoerner tips they add approximately 6'' times 2 in span  plus the extra upper surface from a more squared upper surface, I never got to the test portion of it because they were never built so they could be installed. I sold the Helio and then the plugs got burned up along with my U-10D asymetrical instrument panel.

I have heard there has been some tests with Hoerner tips on the Helio and no signifigant change was found. No paperwork so maybe those test were much like my own fly around make some runs do some touch and goes. I wonder if theres any paperwork done on the Madras droop tips, OK... whatever, I still like the Hoerner tips best and even if they don't increase performance signifigantly theres an explanation by an Aeronautical engineer as to why they should, and they have a clean simple aerodynamic look that makes you think they should help.

I posted the Metcoair explanation here http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?topic=135.msg1495#msg1495

I put the same tips on a 172 and they may add just a little stability but with out definitive tests it may have been wishful thinking. I think they definitely looked better than stock Cessna tips. And I think they would look great on a Helio.

Droop tips may not help but they, in my opinion look much better than the tips that are on the H-7/800s.

The extened tips on H-15 definitely help lift the added fuel that is in them. Jay Jensen says they don't like the stock tips and they intend to add Hoerner tips to wings that have already been extended 18''.

I spoke with Robert Casbeer about the tips on the H-7/800 about all he said was that they change the air flow over the ailerons and led to a lot of testing that led to diffferent aileron rigging.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 11:14:01 AM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Doug Johnson

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2015, 12:39:34 PM »
Louis,
My understanding was that Tony bought H-18 without floats and intented to use the rebuilt floats from H-8

I mixed things up. Looking at pprevious posts it seems the Edo 3500s are on 700s and PK 4000s are on H-800s can you put edo 3500s on an H-800?

Tony Rusyniak Syracuse, NY (2nd of 2) who intends to re-place on PK 4000 amphib floats or possibly  re-use EDO 3500s from H-8
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 03:09:23 AM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Louis

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2015, 07:38:25 PM »
The PK are approoved by STC on the Helio.  3500 for the 295 and 4000 on the 800.  I think.  As for the EDO, i think they are approved by type certificate ( may be then they are approved for all models since they share the same certificate

Is it possible it is like that ?

Louis

Denis

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 07:39:51 AM »
think that the list but don t know if it is complete one
Denis

Gordon Cragg

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 08:42:51 AM »
My reference to the additional wingspan was the usual 40 foot t-hangar. I had my H-295 in a T-Hanger for a short while and what an issue everytime I flew.
Gordon Cragg

Jason Stephens

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2015, 12:27:10 AM »
We had the droop tips on one of our Piper Pawnees, and standard wingtips on the other.  Identical planes otherwise.  No noticeable difference in performance.  Maybe worse handling. We pulled them off the next time the plane was recovered and never regretted it.

If you were going to change the tips on a 700/800, might as well put the 391/395/295 tips on I'd think.

Doug Johnson

Re: c/n H-18, N399MD
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2019, 07:56:33 AM »
I found a better and fairly recent photo of c/n H-18 opened it above as #4.

I can't tell one float from another but the a/c appears to have the same PK 4000s as before.

Still has the Madris wing tips which personally I would replace with a Hoerner wing tip, on second thought
with that fuel hungry 720 cubic inch lycoming I would probably try to do a one time STC and put a copy of the
extended wing tip fuel tanks that are on experimental H-15.
Doug