Author Topic: c/n 2513, N269E  (Read 2203 times)

Doug Johnson

c/n 2513, N269E
« on: June 13, 2015, 01:57:41 PM »
No picture check your albums. Please do an internet search maybe you'll come up with one I couldn't find, I need all the help I can get.

Previous posts about 8R-GCQ or anything click on   http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=search  Enter ?

c/n 2513, built 06/65 as model H-250, original registry N269E [(probably for Ezra 2:69) reg reused on c/n 1208 then c/n 1286 lastly c/n 1292] Rev Robert Bryan [Quebec-Labrador Mission, Catholic Order) 1st Helio of 5] CT rereg N269F sold 06/65, Aero leasing (Stanley Abrams) sold 05/66, AGB corp (Gus Bullock) VT sold 11/66 John Pond (Herampack inc) CT, sold 08/67, reg cancelled export rereg 7/67 8R-GCQ Donald Haack (Herampack holding co), accident no details known other than it left Atkinson airbase Georgetown and went missing with 4 people onboard @ Kamarang area Guyana 11/27/67, never reported being found presumed destroyed,  ? dereg ?

As always any further information or pictures would be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 01:32:37 AM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Warren Kral

Re: c/n 2513, N269E
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2020, 03:06:36 PM »
This Helio SN 2513 was my grandfather's aircraft, Donald Haack. Don died in 2009, but his wife (my grandmother still survives at 87 and helps with what she can remember) Herampack was his holdings company. Don wrote 3 books: Bush Pilot in Diamond Country, Diamond Safari, and Diamonds 'Neath My Wings. The missing Helio  SN 2513 story is written about in "Neath my Wings. He was a diamond miner, The plane was lost in Guayana in November of 1967. I have reason to believe foul play was certainly involved.  4 souls on board. I have been pulling on threads of this cold case for the better part of a year and there are many more questions than answers. I have no photos of the aircraft. He had 6 or 7 planes and this is the only one I have no photos of. No one knows what happened to the aircraft or the 4 aboard. I know all the names of the missing people and the route it was lost on however.

If anyone has any photos of the aircraft that would be most helpful.

-Warren
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 03:13:59 PM by Bikerbiz11 »

Doug Johnson

Re: c/n 2513, N269E
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2020, 07:02:24 PM »
The books appear to be out of print here is a link to some used books  https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/diamonds-neath-my-wings_donald-haack/2840839/#edition=6226325&idiq=36766128

I think I remember finding this book several years ago while it was still in print but was unable to identify which Helio it was for sure.

The little bit of info I had appeared to say 8R-GCQ was with the Guyana defense force when it disappeared.

I sent an email to Warren maybe we can get just a little bit more information to fill in history pargraph. The main thing will be the actual owner at the time of its disappearance, Donald Haack.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 01:23:29 AM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Warren Kral

Re: c/n 2513, N269E
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2020, 07:29:18 PM »
I have all of the books in multiple copies. PM me if you would like a copy. I have a number that I can send out for free for anyone willing to help. I would like to solve this before my grandmother leaves this earth.

Warren Kral

Re: c/n 2513, N269E
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2020, 07:47:07 PM »

I sent a PM to Doug but I just got a bounce back email.

There are photos of the plane. I have seen them in slides. I am still trying to get them from relatives.

Do you mean super courier by S/C? 

8R GCQ was my grandfathers DCA number (dept of civil aviation number) not the number for the Guyense Defense

They departed Atkinson airbase in Georgetown 11.27.67 at 12:45. Last known check was Kamarang at 13:10. That was last contact. They never made it back to Atkinson.


I found a document that would lead me to believe the helio was registered shortly after July 25 1967 in guayana. Once Don bought it, he flew it down to South America shortly after

Doug Johnson

Re: c/n 2513, N269E
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2020, 10:06:47 PM »
Warren, I think that was typo supposed to be c/n for c(onstruction)/n(umber) 2513, some people use m(anfactures/n or b(uild)/n. The FAA uses s(erial)/n for everything but about a hundred Helios built for the military use a serial number as well as a construction or build number.

I'm not sure why my email from the site bounced back so I will send my email address by PM and you can try again.


I also just noticed AGB corp (Gus Bullock) VT sold N269F c/n 2513 on 11/66 to John Pond (Herampack inc) CT, the reg was cancelled, exported and re reg in Guyana as 8R-GCQ then you say that 7/67 (I have 8/67) it was re reg to Donald Haack (Herampack Holding co) (or is it still Herampack inc?).

So apparently it was never with the Guyana  defense force?

My Helio c/n 1233's Guyana reg number was 8R-GCJ I don't know if the similar registry means anything more than their small number of civil aircraft, although my Helio was with the Guyana defense force (Police).

I'm looking forward to seeing your photos.

Any idea who John Pond at Herampack inc was.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 01:52:38 AM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Warren Kral

Re: c/n 2513, N269E
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2020, 06:22:01 AM »
I still have no PMs from you.

It very well could be 8/67. I have a letter from 7/67 stating that it was going to lose the FAA number and be issued a Guyanese number. That could have happened a month later. The Guyense were unsure of what they would do in the beginning.

Ours was never with the defense force.

Yes,  very few number of civil aircraft there at that time. According to my grandfather, only 17 within 500 miles at that time.

Very interesting that yours was a later c/n and was issued a guayana number that alphabetically is before ours.


Also, there were no other helios flying in guyana civil or military at the time ours was there-- claimed my grandfather. Just confirmed by my grandmother last night. She said it was absolutely impossible. They knew every pilot and every plane in guayana, and most of the others in Venezuela and Brasil. There were so few at the time.

John Pond was personal friend and business partner of Don's.

Also, what date was yours entered into service with the Guyanese military? I've found that there was supposedly 3 total from 1968 to 1970 and was one lost in ocean and never found.

What is earliest photo you have of 1233? I looked on forum and didn't see. Maybe I missed it.



« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 07:45:00 AM by Bikerbiz11 »

Doug Johnson

Re: c/n 2513, N269E
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2020, 11:13:21 AM »
Below is a link to c/n 1233, earliest picture I have is at top of the queue. C/n 1233 left the factory 12/66 as VP-GCJ began service with the British Guiana defense but became 8R-GCJ (when the paint was removed you could see VP under the 8R) a month later the country became Guyana and it was renunumbered  about 1/67.  Not sure when it was removed from service with the Guyana defense force but was with them until after '70 as pictures in '70 show.

http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?topic=957.msg4157#msg4157

I will try sending another email to you.
Doug

Warren Kral

Re: c/n 2513, N269E
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2020, 12:19:30 PM »
I just tried to send this to you in PM but it doesn't show that it sent. I will post here just in case.

Doug,

What documentation do you have that says it entered service with GDF in Jan of 67? I would be very interested to see it. That contradicts everything I know about the time.

My grandmother says that there is absolutely a 0% chance of there being another Helio in the country at the time they lived there. At least prior to, or during the time ours went missing. She is 87 and blind as a bat, but she is as sharp as a tack with a good memory. With that said anything is possible. Also, my grandfather, when he was alive, was not aware of others either when he and I spoke of it many times.

At the time that ours went down-- Nov 27th 1967--- their were only a handful of aircraft that were in the country (civilian or military) to help with the search. We knew them all. One was our other aircraft (a De Havilland Beaver on floats) another one or two aircraft in the country were down for repairs. The government temporarily grounded the only aircraft flying at the time available to search (our beaver) without explanation. We contacted the state dept and interpol which finally got the beaver grounding lifted the next day. DC3s and other aircraft flew in from Venezuela, Brazil, and the US to help with the search. There was simply not any aircraft in Guayana to help. Also, my grandfather was on very good friends with the head of the DCA (who helped lift the grounding). If there was police helios in the country at the time, he would have sent them to help.

At that time the largest airport around was an old WWII airbase named Atkinson field (since renamed) not far from Georgetown. The DCA operated out of this place and no Helios were ever there at this time.

It was a very turbulent time in Guyana's history. I would not surprise me if their record keeping was inaccurate or sloppy. I would still love the see what you have nevertheless.

It is so interesting to me that you have one of the planes that flew down there and that it is still airworthy.  Thank you for all of your help!