Author Topic: c/n 2514, N77TR  (Read 3815 times)

Doug Johnson

c/n 2514, N77TR
« on: June 14, 2015, 09:38:47 AM »
3 picture check your albums. Please do an internet search maybe you'll come up with one I couldn't find, I need all the help I can get.

Previous posts about N77TR or anything click on   http://flyhelio.com/smf/index.php?action=search  Enter ?

c/n 2514, built 06/65 as model H-250, original registry N5456E, Dickerson Enterprises inc (W. Logan Dickerson) PA accident aircraft stall/mushed during the initial climb out, after the pilot failed to obtain or maintain flying speed @ Shippenville-Rhea Airport PA 9/65 sold '66, E.L Stringer AZ sold 02/66, A.L. Farnsworth AZ sold 01/67, Alfredo Puchi AZ sold 08/67, Mobile aircraft co AZ sold 03/68, Naples co GA accident not reported or investigated no details @ unknown area time, damaged right wing and tail wheel repaired Lithonia GA 05/68 sold 05/69, Roach Aircraft inc CO (Roy Rice & Veron Zahnov) TX sold 06/69, dereg export reg assigned (XB-GUJ ntu) Aereolineas Fierro sa (Priciliano Sanchez) Mexico export fails sold 10/69, as N5456E Ben Holbrook UT sold 03/70, Roy Rice ID accident aircraft stall/mushed during the initial climb out, after the pilot failed to obtain or maintain flying speed @ Durango-Santiago Airport, Durango, Mexico 7/70 sold 06/73, Glen Thomson CA repaired and converted to H-295 GO-480, with STC (SA1383SW) the aircraft was re-rigged to H-295 specifications and placarded for H-295 limitations now complies with H-295 Type Certificate and has H-295 Operations Manual incorporated, configuration was approved by the Factory as per letter of 10/18/73, rereg N77TR Glen Thomson sold 01/89, Barnstormer ltd (Bernie Caracena) WY incident pilot’s entry door separated at cruise altitude, due to an upper hinge failure 9/89 sold 10/92, Barnstormer ltd WY/CO sold 12/96, Paul Svenkeson MN sold 5/15, Kenneth McAllister Lantau Island Hong Kong (I CORP a Non Citizen Corp.) Anchorage AK currently being relocated to Edmonton AB

note: Paul Svenkeson 02/97 requests FAA to change Certificate of Registration to reflect that the aircraft is an H-295. The
FAA reply is that an application should be made for an Inspector to approve the change, via a completed Application for Airworthiness Certificate.

Apparently it never happened at this time 06/15 still registered as as H-250 s/n 2514.

As always any further information or pictures would be greatly appreciated.



« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 07:37:59 AM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Doug Johnson

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2015, 07:40:23 AM »
edit: by Ken

Kenneth McAllister Lantau Island Hong Kong (I CORP a Non Citizen corp) Anchorage AK after refurbish being relocated to Edmonton AB

In October 2013 I entered into a deal to buy Helio N77TR, and at the time when it was in annual inspection, I had the wings completely removed for through inspection of the spar mod, and all wing attach points, it all came out clean as can be with no cracks and no corrosion. I also has the engine mount completely rebuilt.
We only flew it a few times in 2014, and it was not until April of 2015 that I bought it outright, and put it in the shop for a 4 month teardown rebuild of the engine, and complete, and expensive make over with the gear, and many other things.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 07:47:44 AM by Doug Johnson »
Doug

Doug Johnson 1

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 10:12:04 PM »
E-mail from Ken slightly edited;

I've been very busy for the past 3 years rebuilding my Helio, and now, I'm happy with where I've brought it.

You may find this of interest, in October 1973, Bob Casebeer at the Helio Factory approved my H-250 Helio, to be the first full conversion to a Model H-295 Super Courier, I have now finally got the FAA to correct the paperwork to show that, all the paperwork, and approval was done in Oct. 1973, and clear up a clerical paperwork mistake by the FAA, showing it as a H-250 for the past 44 years, it's now rectified, and is a H-295, Super Courier in the FAA records, and on my registration.

I've got it setup for 35", 31", 29", standard 850x6 wheels, or Federal 3500A skis, currently on 29" wheels





« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:20:15 PM by Doug Johnson 1 »

Doug Johnson 1

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2018, 08:29:37 AM »
Ken sent some pictures and had this to say:

I’ve been slow to send you any photos of my Helio. Sorry. I've got thousands of great photos. It’s painful as I’m planning to sell it, and I want to keep it for ever.

Ken
 
These are the Photos of LED Sunspot 64, on left wing, 2 Sunspot 46 in Nose Cowl, with right wing comparison of old incandesant which is much dimmer.

This is the landing lt setup I would want to have because they are even lower current draw and they are vibration resistant and never burn out. Unfortunately, if I still had my Helio, I wold probably have the High intensity zeon bulbs in the cowling I was just waiting for them to be STC'ed when I sold my Helio and I wasn't knowledgable enough about the retractible landing lts, I thought they were only allowed on the H-391 as a single lt in the left wing.

Now if I was living in AK or Canada and especially if I was on skis the retractible landing Lt is the setup that I would want. My understanding is that if you are landing on a lake at night you can partially deploy them so they are pointing down as you make a flyby of your intended landing spot. Another thing is you can use that pulse lt thing for better visibility and collision avoidance during the day time.

link to Sunspot Lts at A/C Spruce click on http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/sunspot64.php?gclid=CjwKCAjw1tDaBRAMEiwA0rYbSPA6P9MjtRQSWTK84fKxF7aXr5N_dlLoCmSlg95riIm74MNr5dZ2wBoCFBoQAvD_BwE

The overhead picture looks typical of others with the retractable lts.




« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 08:14:01 AM by Doug Johnson 1 »

Foster

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2018, 11:48:08 AM »
Wow, She is Beautiful!

Doug Johnson 1

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 07:57:48 AM »
Broken bird

accident on takeoff, during a routine flight from MN to Juneau, AK to take ownership of Helio #2514 N77TR to its perspective new home. Prior to departure a regional jet had departed RWY 21 at Great Falls, MT, 3 minutes after that Helio N77TR departed in the same sequence, an approaching cold front changed wind direction abruptly causing a 20 KT tailwind, there was never enough time to recover, as the sequence began the tail was lifted and a ground loop ensued, the main gear collapsed a/c fell onto nose, reduction gear case broke and prop separated from engine substantial damage @ Great Falls MT, 8/18


« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 01:45:35 PM by Doug Johnson 1 »

Louis

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 05:33:49 AM »
"""""to take ownership of Helio #2514 N77TR to its perspective new home"""""

So was it a new Helio pilot or an experienced one ?

Those big tires don't always break as much as the small one.  I wonder why since you can apply the same energy on the foot pedal.  But even if i don't understand well why, they just brake sooooo much less. In fact, they brake by themselves from being a drag affair.  When you apply the brakes, you only send a tendency to the right or the left.  You don't have a positive firm lockable brake on one of the wheels.  The wind was turning.  That means that the headwind don't come a tailwind without passing by a crosswind.  If you have a left crosswind with an Helio intake-off, it is a challenge. A 20 knots tailwind is also a challenge in any tailwheel plane.  It means that as you accelerate to gain at least 20K, you need to use the brake to keep it aligned.  The rudder won't work until then.  At least.  With those tire, it is quite a challenge.  Use too much rudder on those terrible tailwheels that we have on the Helio, and the clutch will open.  You will have free castering.  ( unless you have a lock.  But i never saw an Helio with a good working one ) Then you are left with brakes to control it.  Even the interceptor won't work in the right direction with a tailwheel.  I don't think a take-off with big tires can be made with a tailwind-left crosswind.  Try it a dozen times, in the same conditions, and you will have the same result half the time. 

Louis

Doug Johnson 1

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2018, 09:03:38 AM »
Thanks for reply Louis.

Some things I didn't take into consideration or understand were the fact that there was probably a 20 kt crosswind at some point while transitioning to the tailwind, and I still think in mph a lot of the time 20 kts is 23mph my airspeed indicator on my Helio was in mph. I never flew an aircraft on 29" wheels although I did know that it decreases braking. All my intentional downwind takeoffs as well as all but one of my intentional downwind landings were with a constant downwind small wheels tricycle gear on a hard surface. My one downwind landing with a Helio was unintentional off airport and with a light wind, small wheels and did require hard braking.

I suspect that if I had been in the same situation not being that great of a tailwheel pilot I would have probably wrecked the a/c. I tried to wreck it a couple times in crosswind situations as it was. I was lucky I guess, and as said some times that counts for more than skill.

I talked with another person and they thought that the higher angle of attack because of 29'' tires and small tailwheel may have exacerbated the situation as well. This persons belief was that if you are going to use 29'' wheels that double puck brakes are a must and you should have a large tailwheel to maintain the Helios original angle of attack on takeoff, especially with the landing gears backward tricycle configuration.

I'm not sure but I think I remember Rich Carter saying that his tailwheel brings the Helio back to proper angle of attack for takeoff.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 09:42:54 AM by Doug Johnson 1 »

391stol

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2018, 09:09:41 AM »
I wonder if those tires are the beaver tires or the cub 35s ?   The cub 35 will not have enough sidewall support and fold under if sideload is applied with a heavy plane.  I’ve seen a bunch of bent axles on cubs from this. 

Kevin Dunn

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2018, 11:23:36 AM »
Louis,

You are right about the big tires not stopping as well. There are studies out there in the automotive world that clearly indicate that oversize tires on light trucks increase braking distance substantially. It has to do with the physics of the tire size and the limitation of the pressure that the brake system can provide. Installed on a Helio on pavement, a six inch brake disc trying to stop a 35" tire, has a tough time.  I cannot explain the finer details of the science. Maybe someone else can.

Kevin

RCarter

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2018, 09:21:53 PM »
A larger tire is just a longer lever arm acting on the brake from the contact point of the tire and the ground.  The larger the tire the more leverage the tire has on the brake rotor.  A 35" tire with standard double puck 6" brakes is probably too much tire.  The other Helio I know of on 35" tires had Pilatus Porter wheels and brakes.  Those are probably strong enough for the Helio.

I looked at a lot of photos on the insurance page.  No idea if the tires were Beaver or Cub tires, my theory was and still is sidewall roll and the photos of the sheared axle doesnt refute it.  The wheels appeared to be lightweight 10" wheels with 3 bolt brakes.  Those brake disks weren't strong enough for a 29" tire on my plane....certainly a known weakness with larger tires.  The tail-wheel did look awfully small, no reason to have 35" mains with such a tiny little tail wheel.  And the visibility must have been terrible!  Anyway it's all speculation on my part piecing it together from the photos. 

Too damn bad though, it was a beautiful plane.  At least, other than egos, everyone was unhurt.

-Russell
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 11:37:46 PM by RCarter »

Jason Stephens

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2018, 11:51:58 PM »
I had the reverse problem on my Husky when I bought it last year.  It came with 6.00x6 and the brakes were scary grabby.  A switch to 850's and now the braking action is more proper.  RC is right, its all about the radius of the wheel/tire combo and the relative leverage that it has on the brake rotor.  One of the reasons a dude with a truck running huge tires on stock brakes, speeding down the highway at 85mph, with a bumper height at your shoulder is about the scariest thing I ever see on the road.

Kevin Dunn

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 03:06:40 PM »
After I posted yesterday I had a good conversation with a guy here at the airport that explained it well. He said the same thing Russel did about the lever arm. Then he compared it to weight/arm/moment in a weight and balance computation and that made sense also.

Kevin

Doug Johnson 1

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2018, 01:44:16 PM »
N77TR c/n 2514 was sold to Lance Goodwin it will be deregistered as destroyed, no C-reg will be taken up it will be exported as salvage and go to Kluane Lake YT where it will be scrapped for parts

Edit to History paragraph
 Paul Svenkeson MN placed on Federal 3500A wheel skis sold 5/15, Kenneth McAllister Lantau Island Hong Kong (I Corp a Non Citizen corp located in USA), after refurbish will be relocated to Minneapolis MN, paperwork and registry after 44 yrs now shows complete conversion to model H-295, installed 1 retractable Sunspot 64 LED landing lt in each wing and 2 Sunspot 46 LED lts in cowling, instrument panel refurbished, A/C removed from retractable wheel skis placed on 29" tundra wheels, sold 7/18 Eric Ericson AK accident on takeoff, during a routine flight from MN to Juneau, AK to take ownership of Helio #2514 N77TR to its perspective new home. Prior to departure a regional jet had departed RWY 21 at Great Falls, MT, 3 minutes after that Helio N77TR departed in the same sequence, an approaching cold front changed wind direction abruptly causing a 20 KT tailwind, there was never enough time to recover, as the sequence began the tail was lifted and a ground loop ensued, the main gear collapsed a/c fell onto nose, reduction gear case broke and prop separated from engine substantial damage @ Great Falls MT, 8/18, repossessed by Insurance co and sold 10/18 at Holman Aviation MT by Starr Aviation Salvage to Lance Goodwin Kluane Lake YT dereg export 11/18 to Canada C-reg ntu, after evaluation as damaged beyond economical repair it was decided to scrap and disassemble for parts

If the salvage of N77TR had sold for a reasonable price there were other plans afoot to bring one of the other broken H-250's back to flying condition.

You never know maybe people could get together and still make that happen maybe that is still possible.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 06:31:41 PM by Doug Johnson 1 »

rmartell

Re: c/n 2514, N77TR
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2018, 08:48:44 AM »
I have spare parts off my H-250. I will be going through my parts over the next while to decide what is worth keeping to sell.